Rant, Rave, Respect

I generally don’t like to write about negative stuff, because…well, there’s plenty of negative stuff out there. Just turn on the TV or glance at a newspaper and just about all you get is negative stuff.

But there’s been a string of events lately that I have to say something about. I need to blow some steam.

This is a graphic that I lifted from a site where a person named Rayven Collins, who lives in Clarksville Tennessee in the US, showcases some of her paintings.

stolen image

The image is/ was also on many other sites where Ms Collins has posted it. On some of those sites, she is even offering the image for sale, such as in this screenshot, taken from a site called imagekind:

pirated image

Ms Collins is selling the image on the site for US$11.39, or $92.48 framed.

The thing is…it’s not her image. It’s a direct copy of a photo taken by my friend and mentor Carl Roessler. In fact, the image is on the first page of his website. (Note: She’s supposed to take the image down, so it may not be there for much longer.)

When a person helping Carl contacted Ms Collins to ask her to remove the image from her sites, here’s the…let’s just say impolite…email that Ms Collins sent Carl (typos and all):

“I just want to say that you disappoint me as an artist. Most photographers would be honored that their work was used as a reference and instead you make yourself look like an asshole and have my drawing removed from imagekind and zazzle.

Your great white shark photograph has to me been considered as nothing more than a stock photograph. I see it everywhere with your name no where to be seen. It’s been used as album covers for local bands with your name no where in place because it is a stock photograph.

Just wanted to say you should be ashamed for your selfishness. I’m not even sure if you even took the photograph yourself. If I have the wrong “photographer” then I do apologize and please disregard this message.

By the way, it doesn’t take any talent to click a button but skill to duplicate nature by hand. Granted it was a talent to have took the photograph and not be eaten but someone with no artistic skill could and have performed what u did.

It is my fault for not gaining your permission to begin with but like I said I thought is was a stock photograph and am still convinced it still is. that is all.”

So wow. She attacks, retreats, attacks, retreats…in an incoherent flood of verbal diarrhea…all basically to say that she feels she has the right to use his image without his consent because she has unilaterally decided that it is a stock photograph (ignoring for the moment that people pay for stock photographs)…by which she means “free for me to use as I please because I’m the center of the universe”.

I especially love: “it doesn’t take any talent to click a button”, followed by a self-congratulatory statement suggesting that her copying Carl’s image line-for-line required much more skill than actually taking the photograph. (…so this is a novel argument…”Plagiarism requires more skill than photography!” Uhuh. And people think the education system is f*cked up.)

I certainly won’t be surprised if Ms Collins sends me an equally egotistical, vitriolic, incoherent polemic if she sees this.

Then, there’s one of my own recent experiences. One particular blog post I put up recently got highlighted on a number of social networking sites like StumbleUpon, Digg, Reddit and others…resulting in something on the order of 50,000+ views so far, along with lots of contacts from ad agencies, print publications, divers and others.

I didn’t expect this, as I literally wrote the post on a whim in order to procrastinate packing for Izu, but of course, I’m delighted that so many people have seen and commented on it.

A lot of people linked to my post. Some copied the photo and/ or text and linked. Some…well, just took the photo and/ or text.

Take this, for example:

no credit given

This is from a blog written by a woman named Sara Pulver, who, coincidentally, is also an artist.

Now, Sara highlights my image and text in a positive manner, so that’s a good thing. But notice the part I underlined in red: “Cannot find the name of who wrote this”.

Really? Really? You mean the “© Tony Wu | www.tonywublog.com” plastered on the image (in fact, just above your “Cannot find the name of who wrote this”) is too subtle for you? Seriously? For someone who is an artist (and therefore should appreciate the value of intellectual property), has a website, and has a blog…you’d think she’d recognise a URL slapped on the front of an image.

I could go on and on with more examples (like a guy who replied: “chill man, whatever turns you on dude” when I asked him politely to stop selling cards he printed using one of my images), but I feel the steam gradually subsiding, so I’d better wrap this up before I decide to be nice again.

The problem isn’t Rayven or Sara. Nope. It’s much bigger than just them.

The problem is respect…or more precisely, lack thereof.

It seems like people have a tendency to believe that just because they’re on the internet and hence not physically nearby or easily identifiable, they don’t need to have respect for others.

This underlying issue explains both Rayven’s and Sara’s lack of regret for stealing (yes…it’s stealing) intellectual property; it explains trolls on web forums who feel free to call people names, make unsubstantiated accusations, and otherwise just be nasty; it explains people who write to me with questions yet never bother to say “thank you” when I send a detailed reply…it explains all this and more.

At the risk of sounding like an old fuddy duddy…it doesn’t matter if you’re on the internet. You should treat everyone just like you would treat them in person (if you’re an ass in real life, well…not much we can do about that, is there?) and just like you want to be treated.

Of course, not everyone is like this. Some people have sufficient courtesy to write and ask whether it’s ok to use a photo or not…like Montana Black, another artist who did actually write to me to ask for permission to use a photo. I happily agreed to her request, so she got her whale model, and I got a very nice painting from Montana. Everyone’s happy. See how easy it is?

And yes. I realise that things are lot faster and looser on the internet than in the old days…say like three years ago…when print dominated. I’m ok with that. But at least acknowledge your sources, have the decency to ask for permission, get facts before opening your big mouth, and give credit where credit is due.

The internet has changed a lot of things. But some things should always remain the same.

Ok. Rant over. Back to more productive things.

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  • Rayven Collins

    I’ve finally backed down. It has been removed! At the time, I emailed Carl I as going to take it down and thought I’d try once more to save it and put a citation of the photographer and a link to the original photograph but apparently, that wasn’t good enough. I forgot about half the sites you mentioned that it was on and I still don’t think I have it off imagekind.com. I forgot my login and have to wait for the password to be mailed. So anywho, there are a couple of things I need to clear. How you got those emails, Tony I don’t know. Maybe you are Carl or maybe you guys are just really close, doesn’t matter.

    I apologize for the rude comments I’ve made. I’m a very emotional person and when I’m being attacked I say things I later regret. All I ever do is further hurt myself. I didn’t mean it when I said there’s no talent in sea photography. I was just mad. I know I couldn’t do it! In fact, I admire it or else I wouldn’t have chose that photograph for reference. As far as selling it as my own, I have not done! It was for sale as a print but I had forgot that it was until Carl’s lawyer and this blog mentioned it. I’ve not sold a print. I honestly forgot I even had for sale. I think it might be for sale on imagekind but like I said, I plan on taking care of that. Don’t accuse me of making profit when you have no clear proof. If you took a look at the photograph you would see clear changes made with the color scheme and with the lighting. The lighting is dramatic and the it’s a very monochromatic blue. It’s not as harsh and “Jaws like” as the photograph is. The water is more detailed and the eyes and teeth are more.. fuzzy I guess you could say. The photograph was so much more… “in the light” and I wanted my drawing to be more dramatic and catch you off guard in the dark kind of way. How can anyone say that it’s not artistic? Because the proportions and the composition was copied? Also, am I really that crazy for being pissed off about this? Crazy? Passionate is more like it! Of course, I wasn’t going to sit back and just give up that easy! But after the harsh emails, blogs, etc. I decided it’s just not worth it. It’s not even the subject I’ve been working on. I have no use for it aside from a wall decoration. :) So to come off and saying I’m the only woman you’d ever hit and go on and say rude comments like that and then call ME rude. Well that’s just downright hypocritical dontcha think? I still say it’s better than the photograph and I’m sticking to it with no ego in mind! :D

    So bottom line is, it’s not longer in public eye. It was never my intention to “steal” from the artist. OH! And if someone was to use my drawing and put a more artistic, better rendering of it. GO FOR IT! I would love to see you out do me and hell, it would be a lesson to me on how to draw better in the future. Also, it’s soft pastels not colored pencil btw!

    That’s all and I retire from this. Thanks for tuning in!

  • Rayven Collins

    I’ve finally backed down. It has been removed! At the time, I emailed Carl I as going to take it down and thought I’d try once more to save it and put a citation of the photographer and a link to the original photograph but apparently, that wasn’t good enough. I forgot about half the sites you mentioned that it was on and I still don’t think I have it off imagekind.com. I forgot my login and have to wait for the password to be mailed. So anywho, there are a couple of things I need to clear. How you got those emails, Tony I don’t know. Maybe you are Carl or maybe you guys are just really close, doesn’t matter.

    I apologize for the rude comments I’ve made. I’m a very emotional person and when I’m being attacked I say things I later regret. All I ever do is further hurt myself. I didn’t mean it when I said there’s no talent in sea photography. I was just mad. I know I couldn’t do it! In fact, I admire it or else I wouldn’t have chose that photograph for reference. As far as selling it as my own, I have not done! It was for sale as a print but I had forgot that it was until Carl’s lawyer and this blog mentioned it. I’ve not sold a print. I honestly forgot I even had for sale. I think it might be for sale on imagekind but like I said, I plan on taking care of that. Don’t accuse me of making profit when you have no clear proof. If you took a look at the photograph you would see clear changes made with the color scheme and with the lighting. The lighting is dramatic and the it’s a very monochromatic blue. It’s not as harsh and “Jaws like” as the photograph is. The water is more detailed and the eyes and teeth are more.. fuzzy I guess you could say. The photograph was so much more… “in the light” and I wanted my drawing to be more dramatic and catch you off guard in the dark kind of way. How can anyone say that it’s not artistic? Because the proportions and the composition was copied? Also, am I really that crazy for being pissed off about this? Crazy? Passionate is more like it! Of course, I wasn’t going to sit back and just give up that easy! But after the harsh emails, blogs, etc. I decided it’s just not worth it. It’s not even the subject I’ve been working on. I have no use for it aside from a wall decoration. :) So to come off and saying I’m the only woman you’d ever hit and go on and say rude comments like that and then call ME rude. Well that’s just downright hypocritical dontcha think? I still say it’s better than the photograph and I’m sticking to it with no ego in mind! :D

    So bottom line is, it’s not longer in public eye. It was never my intention to “steal” from the artist. OH! And if someone was to use my drawing and put a more artistic, better rendering of it. GO FOR IT! I would love to see you out do me and hell, it would be a lesson to me on how to draw better in the future. Also, it’s soft pastels not colored pencil btw!

    That’s all and I retire from this. Thanks for tuning in!

  • Jennifer Temple

    Wow. Reminds me of the iDiveB*tch fiasco!
    Go Tony, go!

  • Jennifer Temple

    Wow. Reminds me of the iDiveB*tch fiasco!
    Go Tony, go!

  • http://scubacqueando.blogspot.com Marti & Miano Scubacqueand

    All this is really incredible! :(

    We always think that people like our pictures have to first respect for us that we have taken! This is essential for us!

    We were really speechless reading all this …

    A warm greeting from your Italian friends

    Marti & Miano

  • http://scubacqueando.blogspot.com Marti & Miano Scubacqueando

    All this is really incredible! :(

    We always think that people like our pictures have to first respect for us that we have taken! This is essential for us!

    We were really speechless reading all this …

    A warm greeting from your Italian friends

    Marti & Miano

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/divedivedive Michelle Ng

    Speechless. The disrespect! She had disrespected the owner of the photo and disrespected herself. She was THE asshole.

    I did videos of my holiday at Mt Kinabalu. I got most of my info of Mt K from one website. I only used the things the website owner wrote and not photos, even then I emailed him to ask his permission for this. To Ms Collins, I’m probably an idiot huh.

    I think people nowadays have to go to military school or something to learn some RESPECT.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/divedivedive Michelle Ng

    Speechless. The disrespect! She had disrespected the owner of the photo and disrespected herself. She was THE asshole.

    I did videos of my holiday at Mt Kinabalu. I got most of my info of Mt K from one website. I only used the things the website owner wrote and not photos, even then I emailed him to ask his permission for this. To Ms Collins, I’m probably an idiot huh.

    I think people nowadays have to go to military school or something to learn some RESPECT.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/divedivedive Michelle Ng

    “I only used it because I liked it and I wanted to capture it myself. I’m sorry if people are using it against your will and hope that your mission goes accomplished.”
    ………. this is MENTAL. That’s equivalent to “I like your Prada so I took it. I’m sorry your other Pradas have been taken by others too”.

    MENTAL.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/divedivedive Michelle Ng

    “I only used it because I liked it and I wanted to capture it myself. I’m sorry if people are using it against your will and hope that your mission goes accomplished.”
    ………. this is MENTAL. That’s equivalent to “I like your Prada so I took it. I’m sorry your other Pradas have been taken by others too”.

    MENTAL.

  • http://doubleblue.com Tim Rock

    I think she’s very lucky Carl is a patient and nice guy. My copyright attorney would have advised a lawsuit and a strong one as just taking the shots down does nothing to mitigate the damge. His contention is that ignorance of the law is no excuse for infringing on another person’s business interests. She is lucky indeed. Tony’s point in this initial blog regarding respect is spot on. Treat others as you would like to be treated and speak to others (electronically and verbally) as though they were standing in front of you. We as a world will certainly be better off if this in collowed in all aspecys of our lives.

  • http://doubleblue.com Tim Rock

    I think she’s very lucky Carl is a patient and nice guy. My copyright attorney would have advised a lawsuit and a strong one as just taking the shots down does nothing to mitigate the damge. His contention is that ignorance of the law is no excuse for infringing on another person’s business interests. She is lucky indeed. Tony’s point in this initial blog regarding respect is spot on. Treat others as you would like to be treated and speak to others (electronically and verbally) as though they were standing in front of you. We as a world will certainly be better off if this in collowed in all aspecys of our lives.

  • http://doubleblue.com Tim Rock

    Nothing like being in a hurry:

    That’s supposed to say:

    “We as a world will certainly be better off if these gestures of respect are followed in all aspects of our lives.

  • http://doubleblue.com Tim Rock

    Nothing like being in a hurry:

    That’s supposed to say:

    “We as a world will certainly be better off if these gestures of respect are followed in all aspects of our lives.

  • http://www.ideavideo.it Manfred Bortoli

    Never put on web good quality images…
    only low resolution!
    good luck!
    Manfred

  • http://www.ideavideo.it Manfred Bortoli

    Never put on web good quality images…
    only low resolution!
    good luck!
    Manfred

  • http://www.diveplanet.co.nz Paul Morris

    It is so sad that people use others content. I always search for the photographer and seek permission before uploading an image. Usually I get a positive reply but when I don’t I respect that. I had someone chop aup my videos and use them mixed up on You Tube. It was not until my lawyer threatened legal action before all material was removed. People need to learn respect. BIG TIME!!

  • http://www.diveplanet.co.nz Paul Morris

    It is so sad that people use others content. I always search for the photographer and seek permission before uploading an image. Usually I get a positive reply but when I don’t I respect that. I had someone chop aup my videos and use them mixed up on You Tube. It was not until my lawyer threatened legal action before all material was removed. People need to learn respect. BIG TIME!!

  • http://www.alessioviora.com Alessio

    Tony I sinceresly have to say that I put on my website all images with just my name to be loaded down from everyone that just wants it – and I do so because I always hope that people can use them for their children – and you can argue also because I do not make a living out of it at all ( and my pictures are far from being your quality ,too ! AHAHAH ) . Of course it’s everybody’s own choice , but anyhow I am fully and totally speechless from the rudeness and the mental attack that you had… and also considering that “it’s easier to paint than to click and get a picture”..like to stay in front of a great white or sit on a bottom for ages to wait for the animal to pose would be easier than paint.. I cannot paint but I do recognize respect and good education. You have my full support if that still counts anything – take care and ciao from Italy Alessio

  • http://www.alessioviora.com Alessio

    Tony I sinceresly have to say that I put on my website all images with just my name to be loaded down from everyone that just wants it – and I do so because I always hope that people can use them for their children – and you can argue also because I do not make a living out of it at all ( and my pictures are far from being your quality ,too ! AHAHAH ) . Of course it’s everybody’s own choice , but anyhow I am fully and totally speechless from the rudeness and the mental attack that you had… and also considering that “it’s easier to paint than to click and get a picture”..like to stay in front of a great white or sit on a bottom for ages to wait for the animal to pose would be easier than paint.. I cannot paint but I do recognize respect and good education. You have my full support if that still counts anything – take care and ciao from Italy Alessio

  • http://sampaguitaflower.tripod.com/lovely_girl freebi

    wow its so amazing this photo,i wish i wanted to see this kind food under water,ha ha ha ha ha,is great shot,yes this is really incredible.i have nothing to say,

    freb

  • http://sampaguitaflower.tripod.com/lovely_girl freebi

    wow its so amazing this photo,i wish i wanted to see this kind food under water,ha ha ha ha ha,is great shot,yes this is really incredible.i have nothing to say,

    freb

  • http://www.justinkrause.co.uk Justin Krause

    Tony, Brilliant post! Can I have your permission to post this on my Facebook profile so others can read it and see it? ;-)

    …and yes, she’s a very cheeky, disrespecting so and so!

  • http://www.justinkrause.co.uk Justin Krause

    Tony, Brilliant post! Can I have your permission to post this on my Facebook profile so others can read it and see it? ;-)

    …and yes, she’s a very cheeky, disrespecting so and so!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Dolfinguy Rick Pearson

    Hi Tony.

    We have talked before, and are FB friends, so you know who I am. For the rest of you out there, I am an artist who draws and paints marine life; mostly cetaceans. And I have the utmost respect for underwater photographers and their work, and an understanding of how hard it is to go out there and get those shots. I would do the same (shoot my own reference pics), but unfortunately, I cannot SCUBA dive, as I have malformations of the nasal and sinus passages, so I cannot take the pressure changes. Nor can I afford to travel to the remote parts of the world to get those shots, either (I have never seen a live whale swimming in the ocean; but you would never know it from seeing my work). So I have to rely on you guys for reference material for my art. And many of you have become my friends on FB, as well, which totally blows me away, as I have taken the time to find out and know who took the photos I have admired for so long, and many of my underwater photography heroes, such as Flip Nicklin, Tony, Doug Perrine, and many others, are now friends of mine. How cool is that?

    Therefore, just as Tony mentioned, when an artist is respectful, everybody wins. Although I do sometimes make a little money from my art; it is not how I pay the bills. Plus I often donate my work for the use of non-profits who are working to save the ocean and it’s creatures, which I’m sure many of you have done with your photographs, from time to time. And I almost became a marine biologist, so I look upon what I do, in part, as research/reference drawings of the cetacean’s anatomy and behavior; especially when it comes to the sperm whale.
    And from what I have seen and experienced, you guys have seen that as well, in me; i.e., someone who loves the oceans and is working right along side you to show it’s beauty and wonder and to help preserve it, while there’s still a chance to do so. And I have a shining example of what that can be like for someone like me.
    As most of you probably know, Flip Nicklin had a new book come out last year, of his life’s work, and he went on a cross-country tour to both promote the book, and to raise funds for his and Dr. Jim Darling’s non-profit humpback whale research group, Whale Trust. When the tour took him to Dallas, TX, last fall, he sent me an invite (I live in Austin, TX). Of course I showed up, to finally meet one of my cetacean photography heroes (and his lovely wife Linda), and I fully admit that his photos for National Geographic have been major references for a lot my art, which he already knew and was OK with. Now mind you, this was his event, but Flip went out of his way to let the rest of the guests know who I was and what I did, and said I was an exceptional whale artist and they needed to take a look at my work!! First of all, just WOW!! And second of all that was real class on his part; was not expecting that in the least. And we got to talk quite a bit about how much his photos had helped me with my research on sperm whale anatomy, some 30-odd years ago, confirming some things that I had discovered through years of research which no other artist had noticed or used in their art, many years before Flip had taken those shots off Sri Lanka (I’m 59 years old, and I’ve been researching sperm whales and their anatomy since the early 1970s). And of course I gave Flip some prints of my work that was derived from his photos.
    So, like I said before, when there’s respect on the part of the artist for the photographer, everybody wins. Thank you, Tony, for saying what needed to be said.
    Peace,Rick PearsonLeviathan ProductionsAustin, Texas USA

  • http://www.tonywublog.com/ Tony Wu

    Hi Rick,

    Thanks for contributing such a constructive and positive perspective

    Cheers,

    Tony